BBC2 Language Filter?

[.Heavy]

I have signed the paper.

Now to debate the question of a "Option" button to be built within future games that will either allow or disallow language is a good thing. If we can get a Developer to do this then it will increase sales even more because more people will opt to choose between clean or dirty language. I simply choose not to have it. Sometimes I have passed up and not purchased software due to this problem.

I also recognize that there is probably a very small amount of People who will make a issue out of this. The World as we know it; could care less or even celebrates such things in a game today. We need to learn and then teach Developers to do better instead of just tossing in a hat full of bad words and throw them at the customer who just might not tolerate it at all in the home.

[dclark455]

If we can get a Developer to do this then it will increase sales even more because more people will opt to choose between clean or dirty language. I simply choose not to have it. Sometimes I have passed up and not purchased software due to this problem.

I also recognize that there is probably a very small amount of People who will make a issue out of this. The World as we know it; could care less or even celebrates such things in a game today. We need to learn and then teach Developers to do better instead of just tossing in a hat full of bad words and throw them at the customer who just might not tolerate it at all in the home.

I am just curious about when you say that they will sell more copies simply because there is clean language in it, Not to come off the wrong way but how would you know they would sell more copies? There is a rating system in place for just that reason, if a game is rated "M" then there is a reason for it. Instead of adding cost to devloping a game with a word filter in it, why not do what recording artists do and record two diffrent language versions of the game, one with and one without the language. I for one do not want the added cost passed on to me just to have a language filter added to a game that you know is rated "M". It costs EA/Dice money to produce a game, I am sure that they did research into the language and in this case there must be a market for it. It would cost less money for EA/Dice to just change the prerecorded language and market that version with a lower rating.

You are right about one thing, I could care less if there is foul language in it or not, but what do you mean by you need to learn and then teach developers to do better? That is the great thing about this country, you do not have to go out and buy this game, that is your choice to buy it or not. EA/Dice are a for profit company and I do not think that they will do anything, like changing the language, if it ment that it will decrease there bottom line. If they did the CEO would have to answer to the Board of Directors and in turn, the BOD would have to answer to the share holders.

[[ISI] VictorValiant]

I am just curious about when you say that they will sell more copies simply because there is clean language in it, Not to come off the wrong way but how would you know they would sell more copies?

2 examples:

if you look at the movie business, the top grossing movies of all time have cleaner language. most of the top grossing movies are rated PG-13 and below. if BFBC2 was a movie, it would certainly be rated R.

Apple just took down 5,000+ apps off their iTunes store. why? those apps were sexual in nature. they knew that the iPod Touch is a gateway for children and youth to eventually convert to an iPhone.

you expand the market base when you offer it to a wider audience.

and you're right, EA/DICE is a business and it's about the bottom dollar. my opinion is that a small investment in providing a language filter OPTION will increase their profit. if this is true, the cost of the filter doesn't get passed onto the consumer, rather the profits get passed to the shareholders.

[dclark455]

I can't speak to Avatar because I have not viewed the film, but I have heard it is a bit racy in some parts. As to Titanic, PG-13, it was an extremely violent movie with appalling and unjust escape of impending death at the expense of the lives of others. But to take away from the magnitude of violence, this movie presented nudity of unprecedented extent for PG-13 movies. If Kate Winslett had worn only the bottom half of a bikini, we would have seen less of her. The panoramic view of Winslett was presented in a sensual manner. The Motion Picture Association of America (MPAA) states that "If nudity is sexually oriented, the film will generally not be found in the PG-13 category. I don't understand how the MPAA defines "sexually oriented?" In addition, a scene of intercourse gave definition to "steamy." I think we can agree that we should skip over certain parts of the movie if our children were watching, correct? According to the MPAA a PG-13 movie may contain the F bomb, so as I see it BFBC2 would fall into that category for language only. It did receive an "M" rating from the governing body for games.

Here is another issue, according to a poll that I read awhile back, most Americans are tired of sex scandals in Politics, Hollywood or any other entertainer or sports star, yet when one occurs the ratings shoot through the roof on websites like TMZ and the like. If we detest that type of scandal so much why does the viewership go up? As to the Apple issue this again is of a sexual nature and not language, so I do not see the reverence of that as it pertains to the language issue.

Yes, profits get passed along to shareholders, but if it takes a lot of time and money to develop a filter for the language then, IMO that increased cost would get passed along to us the consumer, so the shareholder will get a bigger profit margin.

[[ISI] VictorValiant]

dclark:
i didn't notice racy parts in avatar. i haven't seen Titantic, so i can't comment. either way, i don't want to get too off topic.

i don't know how well you can pass off additional costs to consumers when prices are generally fixed at $49.99 for PC games and $59.99 for consoles. the point still stands that increasing the market base is good for profitability and i think EA/DICE is missing out.

[dclark455]

I still believe there is a market for the game without the filter, I know that Wal-Mart sells edited copies of music cd's, what would be wrong with making two vocals for the game that would bring in two different ratings for it, I think that would be cheaper for EA/Dice. I understand your point of view about the language, but I honestly believe nothing is going to change that. I sincerely wish you guys/gals good luck on your efforts with what you are attempting to accomplish. So, I will agree to disagree with you about the games language and rating. Thanks for a good debate on the matter.

[[ISI]Sug]

My cousin used to work in Marketing for Sony and he said that they lose money on the consoles, but the profits they make in selling games that cost next to nothing to produce (once developing costs are covered), make it profitable. PC gamers eliminate that loss on consoles for gaming companies, since gamers either buy their machine from an outside source or build their own... so it should be in their interest to keep their pc gaming customers happy.

Creating a second version adds the additional developing costs the company would have to incur and it would probably be more cost worthy for the gaming companies to develop something after market to filter out the language and giving people an option to buy the game and opt out of the vulgarity would increase their customer base.

Rating the game M for mature is simply to bring it in compliance with the law, since most people with maturity would find it stupid that they're actually paying more for someone to write scripting with "enough cussing" in it, which drives up the cost of development in the first place.

[Seed315]

Signed. 103 signatures now.

[.Heavy]

For those who asked me about the Language in response to my posts, I have lived a life in Trucking that requires much bad language and some of it is quite explicit and really bad. As in hide your young bad.

Those days are over. In our home we try to buy good products and are careful about the movies we watched etc. For example, the Hallmark movie channel offers pretty good movies that are hard hitting and very well done without the language. There are some movies like "Band Of Brothers" and "Saving Pvt Ryan" that was also very well done and the language is part of it. But not the means by itself.

I can walk into any store or go online and buy whatever game there is to buy. Except that it needs to be somewhat clean and with a purpose. This game BFBC2 displays language that has the F bombs in it and we don't need it. I simply stay on ventrillo and kill the entire vocal words. They are not necessary in multiplayer and besides the point in single player.

I push back against the increasingly lack of moral integrity in Society at large these days, however the Bible says that in the last days we are to see increasing amounts of sexual, immoral and other behaviors that are going to get worse as time goes by.

Titanic is a great movie also. But for a Adult Audience who has lived life already, it is a good movie. However to the young folks who have not yet lived it can contain subject material that is quite something.

When I was a child and sprouted bad words, my parents delivered whipping or punishment. Today no one can punish a kid in this way without being arrested or somehow criticized by someone else. "Spare the rod, spoil the child." Does that mean would I whip a child of mine if that child says bad words? Yes. But only with intent to punish the first instance and to impart a lesson that Child will hopefully retain into adult hood when bad words are freely spoken all over.

Yesterday's children have gotten old enough to make movies and video games to sell. Does that make me obsolete and too old to go watch a movie or buy a game?

Perhaps, if the product contains content that I find objectionable.

Makes me wonder what the Grand kids will be dealing with 15 years from now.

[[ISI]leeseven7]

An easier way to state this....NO bad language in it/or blood scenes. Then not only will the people purchasing the game now still buy it..but the sells would increase when the teens grab a copy as well. Nobody is buying the game just due to the bad language and blood, so they will still buy it.

Look at how ISI doesn't allow cursing and such on the servers. People who are regulars really enjoy being able to play on clean servers. Now on BFBC2 it will be harder to stop people from doing that since it is already in the game.

Personally (in the LONG run) I don't think the game will be as popular as BF2. The newness will wear off soon.

Oh and on the punishing aspect Heavy..I totally agree with spanking. I grew up with spankings, the cleaning out the mouth upon saying bad words, and grounding. In my state I know you can still spank. I believe it all went bad in the late 80's and 90's with this time out junk. Most kids today don't have the same morals and values (thank goodness for our Christian kids) and I believe it is due to how the households have changed their upbringing ways.

[cboy]

Its really to make it true to life , i believe. I dont use that language, and I wear headphones and do not play when my kids are around.
But Jesus taught us to love our enemies, bless those that curse us, so when we talking about real life war, I dont think he would ever go out with a gun and shoot someone.
for me , I think I can seperate reality from a game, and it is based on strategy and challenges my mind, but I dont think Jesus would endorse course language, or killing someone , even in a war.

[[ISI]gandaf007]

I am just curious about when you say that they will sell more copies simply because there is clean language in it, Not to come off the wrong way but how would you know they would sell more copies? There is a rating system in place for just that reason, if a game is rated "M" then there is a reason for it. Instead of adding cost to devloping a game with a word filter in it, why not do what recording artists do and record two diffrent language versions of the game, one with and one without the language. I for one do not want the added cost passed on to me just to have a language filter added to a game that you know is rated "M". It costs EA/Dice money to produce a game, I am sure that they did research into the language and in this case there must be a market for it. It would cost less money for EA/Dice to just change the prerecorded language and market that version with a lower rating.

As far as it goes for music and movies, it costs a lot of money to do takes, scenes, and recordings. It could cost thousands upon thousands of dollars to do a retake or recording of something with clean language. In video games everything is made out of codes, which as I'm sure you know, tell the computer what to do. I don't think it would be too hard to add a few more lines of code in order for the dialog to be censored not only as far as text goes, but also as far as audio is considered. In all reality, it wouldn't of been that much of a hassle.

[dclark455]

One thing I will point out is in BC2 if you type in foul language, it looks like EA/Dice has installed its own word filter, so when a player types the F word, it shows up on the screen as, "hey so and so $%*# you". I tested it out on our server to see what would happen and that is how I found out about the preinstalled filter. I am not sure of all the blocked words but I would bet they are most of the usual and maybe some variations.

[WAR_Bones]

I know this is a little off topic for this thread but how is the server policed now that there is such bad language in the game and how are you all moderating the players? I personally think is should be the same as the west coast server but some people that get kicked/banned for language might have a leg to stand on since the game supports this language. I haven't got the game yet, but plan on it.

[Hammer]

It is good to see this discussion and the concern for the language in the game. I understand the petition and I am no techno wizard but I really enjoy the posts concerning the possibilty of two games one with the language and one without. please correct me if I am wrong but would it not be just as simple as when they program the language in to just at that very point leave it out?

The concern I have as others have posted what will it be like in ten more years if we continue to buy and support these games will it just not go on. Why will they change if we buy the game support the game and then sign a pettition (the petition is a great start). But will they just ignore it and continue on there merry way like they did with the latest MW2. Loss of revenue is the only thing that most companies respect unfortunately in todays society. Not all are like that but far to many.

This post is not meant to say it is wrong for anyone to buy the game put up a server in support of it. It is meant to see if there is a more effective way to cause change in the industry. A way we can all get behind to not just effect change for this game but more importantly for future games.

Is there a way other than just a petition (again great idea and a good start). Is there a way we can all do more. I know ISI is an actual church organization is there any way they could bring the concerns of those that posted here and I am sure many Christians and non alike that just do not want the game in its present format to the media. Is there any way to get other Church organizations to do the same how far are we willing as Christians and Non alike to push this issue?

I have to think that if a hard core tv journalist ask point blank questions about this it would or may effect change. I would think that if we could get this started we could effect change just how is the question. A change for the future of our children and ourselves alike.

God Bless all